confessions of a conflicted christian #1
Blasphemy: That God loves Christians and non-Christians alike.
It is commonly held that the Jews were the chosen people of God in the Old Testament while Christians are chosen today by Christ to enter heaven. Most people find such a view offensive. I do too. Surely, if God is as righteous as he is claimed to be then he will reward all righteous people whether or not they are Christians/Jews. By the same token, if God is loving, surely he is not persuaded simply by those who are Christian but who show no such love for their fellowmen. At the same time, surely He is touched by those who are not Christians who have such love for their fellowmen.
I agree. As a matter of fact, I find several passages in the Bible that contradicts this doctrine that Jews are the chosen people of God and that Christians and only Christians have a place in heaven. For example, God so loved Nebuchadnezzar He not only gave over Judah to Babylon but also drove the king mad until he acknowledged God. In other words, God Himself converted Nebuchadnezzar the Babylonian king. Jonah, as another example, was sent to save Nineveh, which is Assyrian not Jewish (and indeed great enemies of the Jews). Elsewhere too in the Old Testament God showed concern and favour to those who are not Jews and did not bestow special treatment to the Jews as far as I can see.
The Jews are chosen simply to keep God's law - the Torah - nothing more, nothing less. There was a reward and a covenant that goes with that, but nothing about a special place for Jews and not for others. Christians are chosen, if indeed we are chosen, to spread the good news that Jesus brought. Jesus may have prepared a place for us, but our right of entry remains in question (at least to me). If all that is needed is to believe in Jesus, then there will have been no need for Revelations, in which nearly all mentioned churches were rebuked and found wanting.
I think God loves us all - Christians and non-Christians alike. We have no more claim to God than any of his other creatures. And heaven is available to all, Christians and non-Christians alike.
Apologia:
So why am I a Christian? Because I believe that Jesus taught the truth - that there is God, and that we ought to love one another. I find this truth so evident that it is a wonder we don't know it. It is as if Jesus knew the plan and came to remind us what we already know. I am a Christian because I believe Jesus, not because I think by believing Jesus I will go to heaven.
It is commonly held that the Jews were the chosen people of God in the Old Testament while Christians are chosen today by Christ to enter heaven. Most people find such a view offensive. I do too. Surely, if God is as righteous as he is claimed to be then he will reward all righteous people whether or not they are Christians/Jews. By the same token, if God is loving, surely he is not persuaded simply by those who are Christian but who show no such love for their fellowmen. At the same time, surely He is touched by those who are not Christians who have such love for their fellowmen.
I agree. As a matter of fact, I find several passages in the Bible that contradicts this doctrine that Jews are the chosen people of God and that Christians and only Christians have a place in heaven. For example, God so loved Nebuchadnezzar He not only gave over Judah to Babylon but also drove the king mad until he acknowledged God. In other words, God Himself converted Nebuchadnezzar the Babylonian king. Jonah, as another example, was sent to save Nineveh, which is Assyrian not Jewish (and indeed great enemies of the Jews). Elsewhere too in the Old Testament God showed concern and favour to those who are not Jews and did not bestow special treatment to the Jews as far as I can see.
The Jews are chosen simply to keep God's law - the Torah - nothing more, nothing less. There was a reward and a covenant that goes with that, but nothing about a special place for Jews and not for others. Christians are chosen, if indeed we are chosen, to spread the good news that Jesus brought. Jesus may have prepared a place for us, but our right of entry remains in question (at least to me). If all that is needed is to believe in Jesus, then there will have been no need for Revelations, in which nearly all mentioned churches were rebuked and found wanting.
I think God loves us all - Christians and non-Christians alike. We have no more claim to God than any of his other creatures. And heaven is available to all, Christians and non-Christians alike.
Apologia:
So why am I a Christian? Because I believe that Jesus taught the truth - that there is God, and that we ought to love one another. I find this truth so evident that it is a wonder we don't know it. It is as if Jesus knew the plan and came to remind us what we already know. I am a Christian because I believe Jesus, not because I think by believing Jesus I will go to heaven.
posted by brownpanda @ 11:06 pm
12 Comments:
At 11:43 pm,
brownpanda said…
dear autolycus,
your def suggests firstly i doubt and then a reconciliation of that doubt, through faith and expression. rather, i disagree (hence defame current doctrine) and yet remain a christian (for different reasons than the doctrine).
but i welcome your thoughts.
At 12:51 am,
Anonymous said…
It is odd, but I am beginning to think of you as 'Mr Brown'. *grin*
I agree with you that there are no chosen people in the sense of 'exclusively selected' (like those people who get to go for Robinson's sales the day before they open to the public). Isaiah 41:8-10 is very instructive in that God seems to talk about spiritual descendants of Abraham rather than physical descendants (which anyway would include the whole Arab world). It's even clearer in John 15:19.
To delve deeper: if God is just, His justice is beyond human understanding. Yes, Jesus said none go to the Father except by Him (John 14:6), but most critically, he never said exactly what that meant, whether by faith or by reason or retrospective action (as in the case of those who lived before his physical life). Titus 2:11-15 actually makes this clear, that salvation has appeared to all men, and that is what we should teach.
And so, I believe you have a case. When I am asked, "What if... how would God judge?" I answer with one word: "Justly."
I only have one little niggle with you: when you say you disagree with doctrine, maybe you should cite whose doctrine you disagree with, and where it can be found?
At 7:55 am,
brownpanda said…
aaah. how to define doctrine? this too is a problem - it is hard to pin christians down on this. for example, i think the doctrine i am dealing with here is that jews believe they are the chosen ones - special in the eyes of God, like a prince, chosen to ascend to the throne. or christians believing they have a claim to heaven because they believe in Jesus. that all christians go to heaven, and non-christians don't - isn't that a doctrine?
At 10:44 am,
Anonymous said…
1. I think it's Jews who believe Jews are special. Christians know that they are too, as would anyone be who was 'elected' by God.
2. Heh, Christians shouldn't think they have a 'claim' to anything: "For by grace you are saved through faith; not of yourselves, lest any man should boast."
3. By doctrine, I suppose I mean something like this or one of the many documents listed at this page, including that one. Easier to distinguish doctrine (as in a teaching commonly, officially and rigorously held as orthodoxy by many, supported by the scriptures) from 'Christian opinion', which is not quite the same.
Enjoy!
At 11:49 am,
brownpanda said…
Many thanks for the links. If you like, I am addressing items 32 to 38 of that list. Which I have taken out of context, I admit. But as are many Christian discussions, unfortunately. Perhaps what I am addressing are just misconceptions, maybe only my own. Still I hear them spouted. You could say I am reacting to what I hear, from my church, from people (christians and non-christians), as well as the internet (and books).
Also, if we look further, different churches have different doctrines. And this is not about individual church doctrines. Just my take.
To which your perceptions have been enriching. Keep commenting.
At 11:53 am,
brownpanda said…
btw, i don't think i am special in being a christian but privileged. sorry if i am just being pedantic - :).
At 4:21 pm,
Anonymous said…
But while God loves both the christian and non-christian, as He died for all; jew and gentile, only those who believe in Him have eternal life. So is it not true that christians go to heaven and non-christians don't? It's a scary doctrine that is hard to accept, but it only means that we should press on in witnessing to those who don't know God yet.
At 5:50 pm,
brownpanda said…
Hmmm. Again, good questions, becca. But the journey is just beginning. I don't have the answers. Maybe, as I talk about what I see, you can see better for yourself, yes? Your world is beautiful in itself, of which I cannot see but only share if you share it with me. But I don't have the answers, just some perceptions. And we need the answers so badly. I have learnt to enjoy the asking, though. But perhaps autolycus may have more to say...if so, I look forward to it. He is a teacher too, I believe. And perhaps one who is more comfortable in his role.
At 11:12 pm,
Anonymous said…
Sometimes, Calvinism is seen as one of the more extreme forms of Protestant Christianity. However, this shows the key point rather well: God, and not Man, determines who will receive salvation. Salvation is through Christ alone, but the mechanism is indefinite and fully subject to God's grace. A Hindu fakir who receives visions of God and repents in his heart might be saved by Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit despite not hearing from a mortal voice. And we might never know. In fact, it's not Christians who are saved, but the saved who are Christians - no matter how they come to the Father through the Son in the Spirit.
At 2:07 pm,
brownpanda said…
Becca says that "only those who believe in Him have eternal life" to which autolycus says "it's not Christians who are saved, but the saved who are Christians". I'm sorry but the argument is circular: only Christians are saved, and only those who are saved are Christians. Therefore, if you call yourself a Christian, yet you may not be saved because you are not a Christian in the eyes of God? It does appear that calling yourself a Christian, however sincerely, is not enough. Not to worry, Becca, I do believe you are amongst those who will be saved. Because whether or not you call yourself a Christian, your faith is innocent, and the innocent shall certainly be saved. You can bet on this. Only thing, don't lose your innocence - :).
At 9:41 pm,
Anonymous said…
Isn't it the passage about the sheep and the goats; the passage tt you talked about in your most recent entry? Excuse my lack of bible knowledge, but didn't it say something like, "and they will say, 'we cast out demons in your name and healed in your name' and I will say, 'I never knew you'". I always found that scary. But we just have to have faith I suppose
At 10:14 pm,
brownpanda said…
Yes, and I find it scary too. So, as with all things I find scary, I worry about it and wonder what it means.
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